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Talk:Charles de Gaulle
Does "He's a fishing pole" have some idiomatic meaning in French? Because "Two fishing poles (deux galles)" struck me as the most awkward fucking set-up for a pun in all HT-dom, including Detina, Thessalonica, TCotTSD, EIaK--Actually in all of those the puns are for the most part somewhat clever. Not here, though. Turtle Fan 13:36, 18 August 2009 (UTC) :I don't know. That certainly wouldn't stop HT. TR 00:16, 19 August 2009 (UTC) ::I have a vague recollection that this is an allusion to historical events during WWII when "two poles" were used by the underground in occupied France as a punning symbol referring to de Gaulle. However, I did a bit of googling and haven't come up with anything so I could be mistaken. ML4E 18:46, October 17, 2011 (UTC) :::Huh, didn't notice this--thanks, that makes the pun seem less stretched. TR 15:51, October 19, 2011 (UTC) You know, Keller, originally we had this Charles as the TL-191 king. Turtle Fan 03:46, March 31, 2010 (UTC) I'm thinking that the course of TWPE will bring this Charles to power much sooner than in OTL. Unlike Britain, I think France really will experience a coup, and it will be a coalition of anti-German conservatives like de Gaulle in concert with more hardened leftists, especially after the French start paying a butcher's bill in Russia. TR 18:29, October 17, 2011 (UTC) :I think you're quite right about a coup; the French gave freer rein to radicalism than the British did. I'm less sure De Gaulle is the obvious choice to lead it, he seems more like one strong candidate among several. And the fascists may well squash the coup, too. I can see them becoming well-ingrained, and the only hope for getting France back on the good guys' side is an external invasion. Remember, HT hates France. Turtle Fan 15:02, October 18, 2011 (UTC) ::Well, not de Gaulle then, but he'll have a hand in it (provided he isn't dead, of course). It seems to me that a coup in France would be the first step in a "big switch back." If things don't look so secure in France, Germany will have to react (see Italy in OTL), which may mean an invasion. Even if the invasion is successful at first and Germany keeps up whatever puppet it wants, Britain might finally grasp "oh, yeah, they'll try to do that to us," and then perhaps Wilson loses legtimacy. TR 15:26, October 18, 2011 (UTC) :::de Gaulle might come out on top but I think it a bit more likely that the left will lead the coup and anti-German conservatives will be junior partners. I agree this is a high-probability outcome for France. Germany might invade, but by the time the French get around to it, things might be going so badly in the east that Germany might have already committed its reserves and will be unable to take anyone off the front, especially if they're in danger of losing the French contingent of their army anyway. ::::Granted, although I hasten to point out Germany did charge into Italy even as things in the east were going to shit in OTL. TR 15:51, October 19, 2011 (UTC) :::::True. I would suggest the anti-fascist French forces might be able to muster a stronger defense than their Italian counterparts could, making the Germans more hesitant to try something. Remember that Hitler had had years and years to get used to the idea that he could just bitch Italy around. Turtle Fan 18:37, October 19, 2011 (UTC) :::And whether the French revolt first or the British do whatever they're going to do first is an open question. ::::True. TR 15:51, October 19, 2011 (UTC) :::I hope it's the British first, from a story perspective: We've got a man in the camp from which that change will come, and his arc would lose something if, rather than carefully plan their move and wait for the most opportune moment to seize the initiative, they saw someone else do something offstage and thought "Oh, damn, guess we'd better do that too!" Turtle Fan 21:23, October 18, 2011 (UTC) ::::From the story perspective, I agree. From the historical perspective, wherein a dozen coups failed due to circumstances outside of the control of the plotters for every one coup that went as scripted, I guess "we'll see" is the only answer. :::::That we will. The nice thing about fiction like this is that the author can say "Well, the conspiracy I'm putting the most work into is the one that will beat the odds." Of course, HT's conspiracies don't necessarily have a much better success rate than real ones do, largely because he often forgets about them. :::::One possibility that would satisfy quite a few points we've raised would be if Cartland and Co were developing a plan for retaking their country that was well along but depended on following some very delicate timing. Then things go to shit in France and they realize they're going to have to accelerate their plan on the fly because Wilson will be running scared after seeing what could happen to his Parisian counterpart. (It's still Daladier over there, right?) Turtle Fan 18:37, October 19, 2011 (UTC) ::::Walsh's story needn't lose something without the coup--I think his wagon is pretty firmly hitched to Cartland's star. TR 15:51, October 19, 2011 (UTC) :::::I think I'd rather watch nonviolent political intrigue unfold, perhaps with a carefully placed assassination or two along the way, if given the choice between that and the bloody overthrow of a leader. As we discussed elsewhere, gently pushing Wilson into doing something unconstitutional and bringing the King into the picture on Cartland's side would be a very interesting payoff. Turtle Fan 18:37, October 19, 2011 (UTC)